This is something that has stirred so much passion and a sense of frustration and sadness in both Nate and me that I feel like it deserves some attention. So read on if you want or move on to something else.
Proposition 8 passing in California which has now eliminated the right of same sex couples to marry deserves some attention and it is time for people to start thinking and stop spewing their hate and intolerance.
I was disgusted with the fact that President Monson sends out a mandate to his followers asking them to spend their time and money to pass proposition 8, this makes my blood boil and my heart sink. M. Russell Ballard making statements that the institution of marriage must be protected. I am sorry, but I don't understand what it needs to be protected from? I am not picking on Mormons, I am well aware of the fact that other religions also buy into this same kind of discrimination and hate. Other religions are not as efficiently organized and do not have such extreme followers that money and time can be generated in such a fashion as to push this kind of legislation through.
Nobody says it better than our favorite left wing liberal Keith Olbermann, this special comment on his program articulates our feelings much better than I can write them. As I am much to angry and extremely biased against the Mormon religion already. I don't give a damn what you all believe and how you all live your lives, if you are happy then I think that is wonderful, but it is time to quit trying to impose your way of life on others, you are doing humanity a disservice.
11 comments:
I am not overly frustrated with it. What I am frustrated with is why the Gay community can't just call it, " A Civil Union" and fight to have equal rights under that union as far as the same tax advantages that married couples have. This whole thing about having to call it gay marriage is ridiculous to me.
By the way, did you know that two skinheads have already been arrested for mapping out a plan to assasinate Obama? What the hell is this world coming to? I am very afraid that he won't be in office too long before it happens.
In California we now have what is called Domestic Partnership. Which Matt and I had registered for over 7 years now. We don't get the tax advantages, but we do have the right to visits in the hospital and if one of us dies (they claim that the assets will automatically go to the other person) and even though we can file our state taxes together, not Federal, we still don't receive the same tax advantages. This whole thing with having to call it gay marriage is what gets my blood boiling!
I will admit that it is a little wierd to see two gay people getting married.. I don't know. Whatever. I think I am more concerned with raising taxes, terrorism, people losing their homes because the lenders messed it all up, but the lenders are still the ones getting the handouts, etc... etc... Credit card rates being raised to double digits for no reason other then they messed it up and now we have to pay for it. On and on...
I am really not trying to impose bad feelings, especially since I hardly ever see your family! I also have no bad feelings for people in same sex marriages. Believe it or not I know quite a few people who are in them. However if you don't act in what you believe in then whats the point of believing! And yes we are all entitled to our own opinions and beliefs. Yours are yours,and mine are mine! Our country is such a great place to live! But there are my two cents! I'm sick of never opening my mouth on opinions like this, I am always way too careful about other people's feelings but that in no way negates mine!
Hope no one is offended! :)
Thank you for sharing the video. No one could put it better than that I don't think.
It really was weird how Utahns were so involved in this even though we could not even vote on it. I was even confused for a while thinking we could vote!! It was all over and it had nothing to do with us.
I also really like in the video how he said we live in a day of 'fly be the night relationships' or 'one night stands' as we call it. So that's ok or do we need a law for that? These people actually want to make a commitment and we won't allow it. What a shame.
I have to make just a couple of comments.
First, our constitution provides that laws must be established by the voice of the people in the voting booth, not by the whims of the court system. If people want to vote to legalize gay marriage or establish any other law that they want they may do so, but they have to VOTE on it, which is what happened last week. My guess is that you would be all up in arms if the court system suddenly instituted laws without the vote of the people if it were to, say, establish a national religion.
Second, 70% of the African Americans who turned out to vote for Obama voted for Propotition 8. Blame it on religion if you want to, but the fact is that the majority of the people, both liberal and conservative, voted for it. (And it may shock you, but I would not have voted for it, and I know many Mormons who would not have voted for it either.)
Third, I love you guys to death, but you spend a lot of time ranting about how the rest of us should keep our religious and/or conservative ideas to ourselves while you are shouting your liberal and/or atheistic ideas from the rooftops and condemning or ridiculing anyone who doesn't agree with you. It would be nice if you would show the same courtesy that you demand from others.
I do love you all and I respect your views. I just wish that you could also be respectful to people who don't share your views.
0thissucks2
Well, I am going to go out on a limb and make a comment. On this particular subject I have very mixed feelings. I am glad I did not have to vote on this particular proposition. I probably would have abstained rather than tip the balance one way or the other.
The bottom line here is that it was put to a vote. The majority of California voters went in to the voting booth and said how they feel. Neither Pres. Monson nor M Russell Ballard, or anyone else went in and cast the vote. The PEOPLE heard the pros and cons and voted their conscience. It doesn't make it right, but neither does it make it wrong. It is the same system that got your man Obama elected. Many of us are just as unhappy about that as you are happy, but there is a system in place that we work within and accept the results of the system. Majority rules and you win some and you lose some.
I think it is awesome that you are so passionate about your beliefs, but you must allow others the same passion on the other side of any issue.
First of all, unless I’m mistaken, popular vote does not make laws in this country; the state and national legislative branches do. People vote for their representatives that may or may not enact laws that they agree with. The MAJORITY RULES at the time did NOT want desegregation of public schools, African-Americans or woman to vote, or for that matter; they did not want slavery to be abolished. The point is BASIC rights ARE protected by the US Constitution, not by public sentiment. Prop. 8 amended the state constitution and we will have to see whether the courts believe it violates the 14th amendment to the US Constitution.
Second, I think one of the reasons that I personally have such a problem with the Mormon church getting so involved in this is that I lived in Utah for 30+ years and I know that the separation between church and state is NON-EXISTANT! Churches have their place, but I believe if you want to run you’re Church like a business, and weigh in on political issues, you should pay TAXES, like a business. The last time the Mormon church was this outspoken about a political issue was back in the early ‘70’s when they fought against the Equal Rights Amendment for women because of its serious “moral” implications.
The next time I jump up on the roof to shout my atheist, liberal agenda; I will remember that I must be respectful to people who have had to grow up in Utah as part of the majority.
Nate, I did not mean to imply that you shouldn't voice your opinions, I just meant that other people are entitled to express their opinions too. When you guys post about political ideas I often feel like you are incredibly hostile towards anyone who doesn't agree 100% with you. Maybe that's just my own thin skin talking.
If Reverend Wright and Father Pflager can get up in their churches and preach that people should support Obama, then Thomas Monson is entitled to encourage his followers to support issues that he feels are important.
And yes, the legislative branch is supposed to pass laws, but in this case the law was "interpreted" by the judicial branch to be something that it never was before. We also have a system in this country whereby if enough people are unhappy with a current law they can petition for a ballot initiative, which is what was done in California. My guess is that eventually the law will change in California and elsewhere, but changing the attitude of a large population is a slow process. I know that can be frustrating, but look how far we have come in terms of accepting homosexuality in the last 20 to 30 years.
I happen to believe that civil discussion and honest debate will go much farther in advancing this cause than the bullying and intimidation that I see from protesters on t.v. (And while all of the recent coverage has been of gay and lesbian activists protesting and sometimes attacking those who belong to churches, I freely admit that religious people have sometimes used the same tactics. I don't think that such behavior advances either cause.)
I love a spirited debate and I see nothing wrong with anyone voicing their opinion. When we call each other out on issues we can reflect on ourselves and decide if we should change or stay the same. For most of us we feel passionately about something for a reason and we dig our heels in little farther and sometimes shout a little louder.
As long as their are issues to be discussed I will choose to talk about them. If we never examined an issue and allowed ourselves to see it from a different perspective then things would never change and that would be a real shame.
This blog allows us to express who we are and share our insights, passion, desires and experiences to any that are interested. Nate and I love politics, we are intrigued (and baffled) by religious beliefs and love to discuss the many social issues that we all face. We call it like we see it and for the most part I think we try to be considerate of others, but their are absolutely times when I throw all caution to the wind.
And for the record, Jen, you are 100% just as hostile as I am and you know it!! (And I wouldn't have it any other way).
I just want to know how my post came up as Sheryl. What the bleep is that all about? And I never typed that first thing either. The blog has been compromised!
Well I have to say I did think it was weird that you had that Othissucks2 thing on your comment because it didn't sound like something you would write. I figured it was an inside joke that I didn't know of! The blog is now in cahoots with the deer and Jen's appliances!!
Silly us we thought when you wrote you didn't want any comments. That is what you meant! So we didn't comment. But then when we came back to your blog we find the no comment request is gone, and many have now been allowed to express their views. Isn't it great we live in a country where we are permitted to express our points of view? Though sometimes it is better to say we all agree to disagree. The problem with this kind of political, religious and moral debates is that everyone doesn't come to the table with the same amount of ammunition or the same thickness of armor. So often people come away severely wounded and relationships damaged. Just as well that we thought we couldn't comment.
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